"Is he going to heaven??"

Discuss the impacts of religion, pro and con, on people and society. Caution: You must be tolerant of divergent views to post in this forum.
User avatar
Connie Dana
Fleet Admiral
Fleet Admiral
Posts: 4631
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2003 0:00 AM
Location: Elkins, WV

Post by Connie Dana » Fri Jul 06, 2007 0:35 AM

I wonder what is supposed to happen to the many good people who were born and died before Jesus? Are they damned to eternal hell? And even those born after, such as Debbie and I? We are not all that bad, right, Debbie?
No one is entirely useless. Even the worst of us can serve as horrible examples.
User avatar
Pat Patterson
Admiral
Admiral
Posts: 3350
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2001 0:00 AM
Location: Cuyahoga Falls, OH
Contact:

Post by Pat Patterson » Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:32 AM

Matthew 27:52-53...

"And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many."

Romans 10:9...

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."

The Bible said it, I believe it, and that settles it.
User avatar
Mark D Hamill
Forum Administrator
Posts: 15828
Joined: Fri May 26, 2000 23:00 PM
Location: Oak Hill, VA
Contact:

Post by Mark D Hamill » Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:08 AM

The Bible also suggests we stone adulterers. Should we believe that too?
Co-host and webmaster
User avatar
Pat Patterson
Admiral
Admiral
Posts: 3350
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2001 0:00 AM
Location: Cuyahoga Falls, OH
Contact:

Post by Pat Patterson » Fri Jul 06, 2007 15:56 PM

We are now under grace. In Old Testament times (before grace overrode the law), what you say is true. Remember, Jesus told those who were about to stone the harlot, that whoever be without sin should cast the first stone.
User avatar
Mark D Hamill
Forum Administrator
Posts: 15828
Joined: Fri May 26, 2000 23:00 PM
Location: Oak Hill, VA
Contact:

Post by Mark D Hamill » Fri Jul 06, 2007 16:10 PM

I agree with that Pat. Just testing you. There are lots of things in the Bible, and IMHO there are plenty of contradictions too. The New Testament in general is a big improvement over the Old.

Maybe I should write a Newest Testament. No wait, that's the Book of Mormon. ;-)
Co-host and webmaster
MsDebby
Vice Admiral
Vice Admiral
Posts: 2467
Joined: Sun May 28, 2000 23:00 PM

Post by MsDebby » Fri Jul 06, 2007 16:53 PM

Connie Dana wrote:I wonder what is supposed to happen to the many good people who were born and died before Jesus? Are they damned to eternal hell? And even those born after, such as Debbie and I? We are not all that bad, right, Debbie?
Nope, not that bad.... ;-)

Judaism does not recognize a heaven or hell concept. You live on in your acts and deeds in the memory of others.
“Only Robinson Crusoe had everything done by Friday.” ~Anonymous
User avatar
Connie Dana
Fleet Admiral
Fleet Admiral
Posts: 4631
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2003 0:00 AM
Location: Elkins, WV

Post by Connie Dana » Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:48 AM

You know, Debbie, I am glad to have that explained. My daughter-in-law is Jewish, but has never answered the after-life question to my satisfaction. She almost seems to believe in the after-life. I sort of believe what you said. So did Einstein, in the book I read he wrote about religion.
No one is entirely useless. Even the worst of us can serve as horrible examples.
User avatar
Mark D Hamill
Forum Administrator
Posts: 15828
Joined: Fri May 26, 2000 23:00 PM
Location: Oak Hill, VA
Contact:

Post by Mark D Hamill » Sat Jul 21, 2007 13:25 PM

The Jewish faith's answer is the most plausible of all. If you think about it without the spiritual smoke screen, of course of legacy can only live in the minds of those who come after us. But since time in infinite, really anything we accomplish in this life has no meaning a million years from now.

Perhaps the most meaningful things someone can do is to discover new insights that explain our natural universe. That is why Einstein's theories of relativity are probably about the most noteworthy thing that ever happened in the 20th century.
Co-host and webmaster
MsDebby
Vice Admiral
Vice Admiral
Posts: 2467
Joined: Sun May 28, 2000 23:00 PM

Post by MsDebby » Sat Jul 21, 2007 17:13 PM

We deal with that too. Children are named for others that have passed on - my name carries my great grandparents names in it and their names carried their ancestors. My grandchildren or great grandchildren would probably be named to carry a piece of my name, and so on.

There is a small twist to this. If you are an Ashkenazi Jew - European, Russian, etc., names are only used after you have died. Sephardic Jews - from Spain, Portugal, Africa, etc. name after the living. So generally, buildings are named in memory of for European Jews, in honor of Sephardic Jews.
“Only Robinson Crusoe had everything done by Friday.” ~Anonymous
Post Reply